In Conversation With Hamish Hawk

I had the please of interviewing local legend Hamish Hawk over a cup of coffee, this was the conversation that ensued…

It was a grey, uninspiring day in Edinburgh to be juxtaposed so spectacularly when I sat down with the local legend of indie music, one Hamish Hawk for a chat regarding his creative process, latest LP “A Firmer Hand” and more.

There is always an air of anxious excitement when you’re about to chew the fat with someone that inspires you, but fortunately I was put at ease with a genuine welcome from Hamish, who proceeded to sit and engage with genuine interest in my barrage of questions; to which I am very thankful. I sat with my notebook lying open on the coffee table in front, sporting a messy mind map of topics to approach. I figured I’d start by addressing the obvious, today happened to be when Hamish and the band dropped their cover for Eurythmics “Sweet Dreams Are Made of This”, a track that spearheads the release of a forthcoming EP of covers in September. Upon congratulating him on the release I figured I’d ask what draws Hamish to creating and releasing covers; as especially nowadays it feels like an increasingly rare occurrence among professional musicians. “Fundamentally you do covers because it allows you to blow off steam and have fun in a way that’s a bit more care-free” A response that made total sense having just prior stated that he was “a perfectionist to a fault” and explaining just how involved and carefully considered the whole process is for the band’s original work. It was becoming immediately apparent to me that Hamish has a genuine love for music itself, and by attributing his own spin on music he admires, he is honouring that. As we’d opened talking interpreting the work of others, I decided to pivot into what music has inspired him throughout his career and ask about influences that affect the band’s workflow; to which he stated that his band has such a diverse music taste that they fortunately can draw from a plethora of genres. “We’re all like little islands in terms of music taste” he said referring to growing up with his family. This gave Hamish an appreciation for all sorts of sound from folk to hip-hop. As the youngest of three, there was plenty of different music to grow up with. “For me it was always about lyrics”. A statement that shines so truly throughout Hamish’s work that it did not surprise me in the slightest. “Its funny in the past few albums the bands that seem to get spoken of in the same breath as us, especially with Heavy Elevator, it was headed as post-punk but there were also songs on that album that were way more new-romantic” It was clear that Hawk and his band could draw from an amalgamation of inspirations, citing The Smiths, Joy Division, The Divine Comedy and crooners such as Scott Walker. “It’s never been too much about genre” Hamish makes it politely but passionately clear that labels are not considered when producing his projects “it’s unified by the fact it’s us”. With this said, he does say that he confidently still identifies the band as an “indie band” but that label bears no weight on the sound. I wanted to delve further into Hamish’s pinpoint obsession with his lyrics; as something that had drawn me to his music in the first place was his ability to weave catchy hooks and melodies with lyrics that still feel abundant in both substance and style, reading like poems. Taking a moment to answer, I could tell there was a genuine sincerity in wanting to convey his words correctly. He said that word play is very enjoyable, but that story and message is the most integral part, often you can dance around with too much clever wordplay and lose the substance; it’s important to tread that line carefully. I suppose maintaining a consistent level of style and substance is what makes Hamish’s writing process so gruelling but equally rewarding. He spoke of how important it is to consider the phonetics of the words in tandem; a quality of his writing that I myself had noticed but failed to pinpoint. “I do not want the songs in any way to be a labour to the listener”. Watching Hamish talk I could tell that there was such an evident passion to music that translates into an incredibly thorough process of song-crafting. Hearing him talk about the lag time between hearing words and understanding them, and how that affects the enjoyment of a track was something that I’d genuinely not heard a fan artist talk about before; but something I myself will take on board when writing in the future. It was almost TED talk like, the insight he was giving. I would hazard a guess to say that growing up with a passion for folk music may have sparked Hawk’s goal of conveying stories with clarity and words arranged like poems, satisfying to sing, and satisfying to listen to. Post further chit-chat on the importance of lyrics within his music, citing Bob Dylan keynotes, Milton quotes and the like; flattered by the response I decided to lead the conversation to his latest LP, A Firmer Hand, asking if on this record, he dug deeper into his own personal life and thoughts for the lyrical and thematic inspiration, and if so, what lasting impact that’s had on him as a person. He opened by noting that a few of the tracks on A Firmer Hand were in fact written years before the album came to fruition, one of which Questionable Hit, could have even featured on the previous LP. But there was a certain “bitterness” that didn’t fit with the less direct and contemplative nature of Angel Numbers. Setting that aside, Hamish then wrote Machiavelli’s Room, or in his words “it may sound silly, but the song - got written.” As if it were bursting to fall onto the page, I could tell Hamish was being genuine when he said he didn’t really clock quite what he was writing until he could stand back and view it for what it was. “It’s the songs on A Firmer Hand that guided it into being; I didn’t set out to write this kind of album.” He knew that Machiavelli’s room had to come out, and that it almost demanded a vehicle in which to do so; guiding the tone for the project to avoid sounding discordant. Having never spoken on his sexuality within his music, beyond leaving nods or hints for the “discerning listener” “I kicked the door down with Machiavelli’s room” he said with a laugh. “It was never that I had purposely not addressed it” Hamish wanted to make clear, it was just within the process of creating AFH that it became apparent that it would be addressed. “It isn’t just about queer sexuality, it’s also generally about masculinity” The songs explore both what being a “man” means to Hamish, relationships with men in his life, and the general concept of masculinity and how we define it. “It was a hugely revealing process for me unpacking a lot of subconscious ruminations in masculinity, friends of mine, family members, colleagues, lovers, bosses and men in authority/media.” mentioning that even the tracks that deal less overtly with sexuality such as Men Like Wire were still hugely revealing and worthwhile for him to create and explore. “A Firmer Hand, has allowed me now, for want of a better phrase has allowed to be to feel far more comfortable in myself” It was lovely to hear that the creative process for the album had been both eye-opening and therapeutic for Hamish; music being a gift to both the listeners and the artist is part of what makes it so special.

It was this at this point I segwayed into an entirely separate topic but one that from prior to the interview felt like a necessary one to investigate. I wanted to gather Hamish’s thoughts on being labelled very often as a “scottish musician” as I personally felt like being pigeon-holed by your nationality like that may feel rather unfair or annoying when constant, and you don’t get that treatment if you’re english for example. Wanting to know where he stood, if there was a level of national pride or none at all, intrigued me. He opened by making it abundantly clear that he grew up with a massive interest and involvement with the Scottish indie scene, noting a plethora of acts throughout the years that he has both enjoyed and been inspired by. “The Scottish music scene has given me my career” “My blood runs scottish when it comes to music” It was clear that Hamish did not want to disrespect or discredit the scene that he loves at all, but was careful to note that he believes you’d be hard pressed to find anyone else in the scene that would disagree that the Scottish music scene can have a “parochial” attitude that comes in tandem with wanting to protect and somewhat isolate itself. “I’m very thankful for the Scottish music scene but I and the band were always quite careful not to be pigeon-holed in that way; we always wanted to be as present in England, Wales and beyond as we were in Scotland” I mentioned that when I first came across his music I had no idea he was scottish, and that my dad had showed me, to which Hawk laughed and chuckled that he’d “heard that one before” I said that he’d done a great job of showing appreciation to his heritage whilst not allowing the band to be boxed in, which led him to say that “with all this being said, I am very privileged to be part of the Scottish music scene because the quality is very high and always has been particularly for lyrically based music.” Bless him, it was very clear Hamish didn’t want to come across at all criticising of the label; and he of course conveyed this; showing that there is a balance between pride but also not wanting to be limited; an important nuance.

Remembering that I’m writing for the University of Edinburgh’s Independent Music Society I knew I had to interrogate Hamish on his knowledge of the local scene, if he had any favourite bands to shout out and the like. It was then that I was actually met with a certain dismay, as Hamish proceeded to confess that due to how tumultuous and hectic his life has been with the recent success of his music in the last few years, he’s been drawn away from the local scene and felt disconnected; which he clearly felt sad about. After talking about just how chaotic life had been for him, and the sheer volume of gigs and touring that then takes place; he said that with “sorrow” gigging becomes so aligned with work that downtime is therefore no-longer that. “It’s awful to say that” Hamish mutters but of course it’s wholly understandable; and something that musicians rarely speak about; when your passion becomes your job it's a  wonderful thing but it does direct your spare-time to other interests and places. “Obviously I’m aware of a lot of the emerging Scottish talent but I wouldn’t say I’m as aware of say the bands that are currently headlining Sneaky Pete’s” It was clear that this topic was saddening for Hamish as I joked that he’d almost been “taken away” from the scene, which is somewhat an inevitability with success. Hamish then showed strong support for Lizzie Reid, bassist in his band and solo musician in her own right, with lyrical and compositional talent that Hamish said he was rather envious of. There was a definite authenticity to the praise and I could tell he is thoroughly inspired by her work, and so I would whole-heartedly forward this recommendation. Praising bands that have existed a little longer such as Walt Disco, he then mentioned that he had come across numerous talented artists that seemed to not be there one second and then huge the next; citing a recent friendship with artist Katy Gregson-MacLeod, who had found sudden success with TikTok, an ever-growing trend for artists of the current day. He also recommended Jacob Alon, but once again emphasized that he feels like his knowledge isn’t as extensive as he wishes it was.

Having once again been pulled into conversation that was both engaging and enjoyable, I remembered the task at hand and questioned Hamish on what advice he would give to young local musicians in the area (such as those of you that are members of the society) to which Hamish was cautious to mention that he could only really speak from his own experience; not wanting to lead any others that may find success elsewhere, or those that don’t have the same access to facilities etc that he did. “I’ve been making music for over a decade now and there are a lot of musicians who when I was 23-24 were my contemporaries, who don’t make music anymore. But if you’d ask me then who would be the ones leading the vanguard now I would’ve said those people. They don’t make music anymore and that’s not a failing on their part, often it’s an active choice” “But there is intermittently that voice in your head that goes ‘am I gonna make it? Is it worth it?’ and it's a scary voice” Hamish mentioned that he’d fortunately only been confronted by those thoughts a few times and they’ve “never been too loud [or] too persuasive a voice” but addressed those that feel as if music is a driving passion and all-consuming hobby with the advice to “be patient, and stay with it, don’t expect too much if it too soon because you can extinguish the little flame that you have” “Do it fundamentally for yourself.” This wasn’t brief or fleeting wisdom from Hamish, as with all answers he’d given throughout the interview it he went into great detail and explanation with each point, and alas I am constricted to the medium of writing a concise article to pick apart at key points. Having had the privilege of listening to in-depth and well-constructed answers for the past forty minutes, I attempted to try and stump him with questions too simple to give an elaborate answer to: Favourite film? Favourite album? But of course that led into a passionate conversation in which the plot of the Wicker Man was explained to my uncultured self - and then shared appreciation for Stephen Merritt’s lyricism who Hamish cited as being his most inspiring lyricist working today after stating that 69 Love Songs by The Magnetic Fields would be his desert island disk. Oh and he also really likes Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory. That and the Wicker Man. Rather eclectic. Rather suitable for the man.

I’d like to give a massive thank you to Hamish for agreeing to and doing this interview with me, and would encourage those of you reading that haven’t already acquainted yourself with his band’s work to do so immediately, as the concoction of musical influences and ideas for some incredibly talented musicians collectively comes together into music that I think everyone can find an aspect to enjoy from.